Episode 20
Imposter Syndrome w/ Denise Chilton
So welcome to episode 20. And in this episode, we're going to explore imposter syndrome.
It might be just as a phrase that you hear, or you might really resonate with it, and you might know a bit more about it.
You might yourself feel that you suffer, and I think the best way to do this is to bring somebody in who has got a lot of experience in this field, both with her clients and her own life.
The very special Denise Chilton joins us on the podcast. We dive deep into the psychology behind imposter syndrome, exploring its impact on confidence, career, and mental health. We talk about strategies to overcome self-doubt, and embracing your true worth.
Make sure to check out Denise's work.
https://www.denisechilton.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/DeniseChiltonLtd
https://twitter.com/denisechilton
To find out more , or to get in touch:
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/2mindsuk
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/alison2minds/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/alisonblackler
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alison-blackler-1686a121/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPWMpkuAeRq5qkgrxbZsx_g
Want to be a guest on the podcast?
https://2-minds.co.uk/mental-wealth-podcast-guest/
Transcript
20 - Imposter Syndrome
Transcript
[:Welcome to mental wealth, the podcast to invest in your mind. Here I will help you make sense of your mind and behaviours, giving you the tools to have your best life. There is so much to share, so let's get into this episode and explore another great topic.
[:So welcome to episode 20. And in this episode, we're going to explore impost syndrome. It might be just as a phrase that you hear, or you might really resonate with it, and you might know a bit more about it. You might yourself feel that you suffer, and I think the.
[:Best way to do this is to bring somebody in who has got a lot of experience in this field, both with her clients and her own life.
[:No doubt I can certainly say that mine too. So I would love to welcome my very special friend Denise Chilton as my special guest in this episode. Hi, Denise.
[:Hi, Allison. Thank you for inviting me. Lovely to see you. It's always good to see you. So and thanks for inviting me. I'm really pleased to be here today.
[:Brilliant. So tell.
[:Everyone a little bit about about you first.
[:Ohh gosh well, I'm very old so I'm not really. I'm better make this short because it's the Shortish podcast so.
[:So my career life, Coach leadership coach, do a lot of work in the leadership space and I've been doing this work for about maybe about 15 years. So. So when you kind of talked about Imposter syndrome, it's something that comes up very often with clients that I work with.
[:And on an organisation, so I think it's a.
[:It'd be quite nice to get underneath the surface to explore in a bit more detail.
[:I think so, and I think as is the often with these topic.
[:When we talk about it, it helps people realise that they're not.
[:On their own.
[:That lots of people do have these issues and we can then explore some, maybe some strategies. So I think it's really good for us to start with that more than that actually, just thinking about the fact that we're not on our own, we are alone and I know that Denise, you.
[:Have shared with me before your thoughts on Imposter syndrome and and who can it? Who can it affect?
[:Well, I think that's a really good one. I think there was some research done. I think the phrase came from some research that started out.
[:That was done on successful women and and actually what they realised that actually if you've got imposter syndrome, it can happen to anyone and it happens very, very.
[:Commonly to successful people, so I always say to people.
[:I'm working with.
[:If you've got imposter syndrome, you're likely to be very successful.
[:It's so funny to say that, isn't it? They'll go into the opposite to what people think. Really. Yeah, they challenge themselves.
[:So much with it.
[:Yeah, and I also.
[:Think it's quite interesting that I think people maybe have a bit of a misconception about actually what it is. So when we haven't done anything before or we're new to something, it's really normal to get self doubt.
[:Yeah. And it impacts our confidence and we think because we feeling a little bit not very confident or we've got a bit of self doubt, we think it's imposter syndrome and the and the real terminology of imposter syndrome is it's a consistent that's happened to you pretty much throughout your life in whichever jobs you.
[:They've gone in, so I.
[:Think you know, like with any definitions and badges.
[:We can sometimes take them on board and kind of go well actually. Is this just normal self doubt or is this something that's been with me a long time?
[:I think that's really important to say that, isn't it? Because always on this podcast particularly, I'm helping people understand a bit more about their mind and. And yeah, if you're in a new situation or a situation that last time was difficult.
[:You are going to be having some thoughts your mind might be screaming at you saying don't do it or you're not gonna be able to do it and it's normal, isn't it? And that's what we're saying to start with. Yeah. And I also think as well, if we've never done something before, the brain hasn't got a plan as it kind of goes to our little memory box and goes well.
[:Never done that before, so I can't, you know. And so then we make up a great story about why we can't do it so.
[:My that's one of the questions I always ask when someone comes up against something that I've never done, it's like, well, what's the plan? I don't know. So brilliant. So our first starting point is to remember that if it's something different, something new or maybe something that was difficult in the past, there is going to be.
[:Some level of questioning, doubt, uncertainty. So we can look at how we can manage that. But I think then we can move into the sort of deeper side of imposter syndrome and what it actually is and how it plays out. Cause I in my work, I see it play out in different ways.
[:Some people are perfectionists, you know. They never complete, never feel happy about completing something. Some people sort of live in that overwork.
[:Place where they feel inadequate so they just do more and more and more and more. Some people have that idea about goals and setting goals that are the bars just like up here somewhere almost unachievable. Or maybe they just feel like they've got to find out absolutely everything.
[:So that they are an expert.
[:Yeah. I think well, as human beings as well, we're really.
[:Uncomfortable not being in control. And then we only have to look at the pandemic. Don't need to kind of go. We weren't really in control. You know, things happen. Don't know that has never happened before. So. But I think that's another driver, isn't it? Being in control. So and that overwork and perfectionism can't.
[:Can't make a mistake and a lot of people think those kind of change.
[:Drivers, if you're like, yeah.
[:And I think one of the things that I'm always pushing people to think about.
[:Some of those behaviours don't have to be a problem. You know, if you like things to be done well, well, it's not a problem, but what we're looking for is when it's out of that reach or that I I I often use the word almost disabling, you know, so your need for perfection becomes disabling your need.
[:Your overwork because you're feeling adequate becomes a disabling feature, and I think for me, it's how you identify.
[:How far you've kind of gone. Are you going?
[:Yeah. And I and I, you know, sometimes as well in my work, I I can't hear that people are trying to prove themselves and prove that I'm worth it in this job. I'm proving that. And I'm like, well, simply by the fact you've got the job. Yeah. They'll come up with 300 reasons why they, you know, well, perhaps no one applied or.
[:You know, perhaps. Uh, you know.
[:And I, you know, who knows why they got the job? And I said, well, have you ever thought that it might be because you're skilled?
[:And you've got.
[:The experience maybe they haven't thought about that. So again, I think just simply talking about it, sometimes people can't get a perspective, can they?
[:Yeah. And again, when you're feeling emotional about something, and again we know, and I'm often talking about it on this show. You won't see the logic. You won't see the the truth in it. And and that's where the mind doesn't make up a load of.
[:Things I love that analogy, you know, or maybe nobody else applied, but that's chances of that are 0 out there. You got the job because you you deserved it or you are what they're looking for.
[:I I had somebody similar conversation. I I I just remember saying to him, do you really think they put you in charge of the of the finance director if you didn't really know what you were doing with like, you know £3 million budget? Do you really think that some, you know, they do that and there was like this silence and you went suppose not?
[:Yeah. And I think that's an interesting strategy, isn't it, that we can offer for, for anyone who is who does identify with this is fact from feeling so often when we do mention it to somebody else.
[:They will ask a question that will help you identify the truth.
[:Or you can do that yourself. You know, sometimes it's just actually writing down that thought and then looking at it, what's the fact in here? What's the against the feeling?
[:Yeah, I absolutely, yeah, I love that.
[:Strategy, Allison. The writing it down and and I you know write it down and then read it back and then and ask yourself is that true?
[:What are you assuming?
[:Here, where's the evidence? If we were in a, you know, a court of law.
[:Where's the evidence? And you can kind of it's kind of funny, isn't it? They read, they get to #5 and then you get they.
[:Go really.
[:Yeah, yeah.
[:So there's all this evidence, isn't there? So.
[:Definitely. So really thinking about what it is that you thinking or are you saying to yourself and then find some fact, is there any evidence to say that that is true because the chances are?
[:It won't be and I think just being able to get out of your head and and out of that feeling that you've got or that thing that you've made-up.
[:Is so important.
[:Yeah, absolutely. I think also another great strategy I use is is as a way to get perspective is that remember it almost like creating a a little character for your imposter syndrome. So it absolutely separates you from you and a a really great way to do that is use your own name. So come on, Denise.
[:Like and. So what? You know, what would you? What would you do here? And actually, you know, give your imposter syndrome a name. So what does it need right now? Generally, it's coming from a place of fear.
[:And and what does it? What do you need to take care of it? So and and. It's just a great little way, isn't it? To separate that out from you.
[:That's why I love that. And I think something else that springs to my mind is if that voice isn't even yours. So while he can be talking to Denise and saying, come on, is this true?
[:Maybe worth checking whose voice it is because I know for me some of my imposter used to not be my voice at all. It was definitely somebody else who was a doubter of mine who would put me down and say, you know, you're not good enough. And actually.
[:That voice, some of those things that I was thinking they weren't even anything to do with me. They were definitely things that have been said to.
[:Me in the past.
[:Absolutely. I worked with someone who.
[:Her imposter syndrome had started at school. Really. She was quite and very intelligent and very quiet, so only so and actually that was perceived. She was told that she wasn't very confident and she was absolutely confident but she was just quiet, but actually had grown up with that. So that manifested into some sort of monster.
[: e in front of like, you know,: [:And and then actually being able to. Ohh gosh actually I know where that's this has come from now. So again, there's the evidence, isn't it?
[:And and and and.
[:We bring stuff, we bring stuff with us on our journey, don't we? From our kind of younger, younger years into our more mature.
[:We do and I.
[:Think just identifying who is it?
[:How old do you feel when you're feeling and thinking this.
[:Thing. There's another good question to ask yourself.
[:Yeah. Love that. Absolutely love it. It's kind of like the younger self, isn't it? Somewhere I love that.
[:Yeah, and it's a great and that's another great strategy, isn't it, to help you get perspective actually how old are you now?
[:Yeah, because you're just.
[:Challenging, aren't you? In the moment you're just challenging this feeling, this, this feeling that an imposter is in your midst right now. Because that imposter is going to be telling you things like.
[:You're gonna get found out. Somebody's gonna realise that you're not good enough. Somebody's gonna tell you that. How on earth did you get here? And and this these thoughts we can start to maybe write them down. See whose voice it is. See how old you.
[:Feel. And then as you say, if you can identify a time in your life then it's like ohh, OK, that's why that's there.
[:I think a lot of.
[:Another great strategy, and I think and this is something certainly.
[:I think this has really personally helped me over the last number of years is being more self compassionate like you know, would you?
[:Talk to your.
[:Best friend like that.
[:What you mean you wouldn't?
[:Even have any friends? You know you like. It's kind of. So what is it that? What is it the.
[:Makes us talk to ourselves like that. Like that really harsh critic voice. So what would be a more compassionate voice? Like, particularly when you're in struggle and sometimes, you know, things happen, don't they? And we don't really have any control over. We have got disappointment in our work life and then we think Oh well, we are not good enough.
[:And actually, it's how we process those things and.
[:And and move through them. Yeah, I love that. It's so important. The the self-care. The sort of be kinder to yourself because I think that plays out in just so many scenarios for people when they're when it's going a bit wrong or a bit tough and they forget that actually they just need to think about that. But I think something that I've been.
[:Talking to somebody about recently trying to mine and she remembers very young and a school situation and she was left out.
[:Of a friendship group and for her pushing herself, working so, so hard for fear of that happening again. And here she is now as a young woman who still can feel this old feeling of being young and being left out with her friends and terrified of it.
[:Happening again. So said she over.
[:Complicates things. Overthinks things creates the scenarios for herself. But uh yeah, not kind to herself whatsoever. And I it's it. But you know, I work a lot and I do a lot of work in the academic world and, you know, hugely successful people.
[:You know, worked really, really hard. So real high achievers from a very young age. And when we've done some coaching, we really can a dog underneath, it's been very much around a forever.
[:To stop if I stop.
[:Working so hard. I'm not gonna be successful and I'm actually really challenging that and going, you know, have you have you ever not been? Have you ever failed? No, I haven't. So it it's actually, you know, what does enough look like.
[:Umm, I think all of that is well, it's that. But if you say.
[:Good enough. How can you allow something? Can you allow something to go out? That's, you know, maybe isn't as perfect as you wanted it to be. And what might that feel like if you could do that? I think acknowledging that's enough, that's good enough. Or acknowledging the success of however.
[:Well, you've got it. I think is another great strategy.
[:Yeah. And actually the other one of my rules of life is that sometimes we're gonna make a mistake.
[:I was thinking.
[:If I think it's, it's not just my saying, but it's definitely one I live by is, you know, it's just information. It hasn't worked out. You've just got more information. You just know.
[:Now a bit.
[:More about that or you know how.
[:And I think.
[:The other thing that people often find themselves doing again, it's it plays into this.
[:Idea that you're on your.
[:Own is that you make up.
[:That somebody else is going to think like.
[:You about your.
[:Work. It's going to think it's not good enough. Think it's not perfect enough. Think it's not good? Brilliant enough. And actually 9 times out of 10, most people are going like, that's brilliant.
[:So we feel alone with it. Don't.
[:We, we and.
[:Having the courage to say, do you know what I'm going?
[:To send it and get some feedback.
[:Is so much more useful because most people are going to say it's just what we wanted. Yeah. And the other thing as well, I think again, if we if imposter syndrome tends to be our friend, we're not very good at taking in compliments.
[:Good point.
[:I also compliments are like a gift. Ohh no we we base it off. Oh no. Well.
[:You know, even like the simple thing about ohh you look nice in that dress. Ohh, this whole thing I.
[:Got it from you know it's.
[:And I always say another little technique is just say thank you, even if it's really uncomfortable. If someone was giving you a gift, you wouldn't give it back or throw it back.
[:Would you? Yeah. So I actually think that really helps build that.
[:Muscle of self worth really that I am good enough so and it can just feel a bit uncomfortable.
[:But it is a gift. As you said, it's it is strengthening your your self worth muscle, your confidence, muscle just to be able to say if somebody says that's really good just feel say thank you.
[:Yeah, yeah, I.
[:Know lots of people, as I'm sure you do, who find that hard, but once you.
[:Do it, then it gets easier and it and then you're building up internally that's self.
[:Yeah, absolutely.
[:I think something else that I see is a strategy that works quite well in these kind of situations is saying.
[:Yes to things.
[:Because if you are somebody who does lots of what if thinking worries about is it going to be the?
[:Right decision is.
[:It The right you're overthinking, worried that it's not going to be perfect. Worried that you don't know how to do something, which, as we said at the beginning, the chances are you're gonna feel a bit worried.
[:Because it's new, but actually just having the courage to say yes to opportunities is a way of coping with imposter syndrome.
[:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I always say say yes and then work out the hour later, even if you're mildly terrified.
[:And I think that's the thing, isn't it? We're seeing that that emotional response of fear we see of things like that would be fear. Being worried about something. And yet it's perfectly.
[:Kind of normal and it's part.
[:Of our makeup, really.
[:Yeah, well, you know this more than more than anyone about going out your comfort. So I mean, of all the people I know, you're the first one to say yes, I'll have to go at that and.
[:Not done stuff.
[:Before I just just have four days in Iceland.
[:And and spent most of the time mildly terrified on a snowmobile or snorkelling. But actually I'm not. I am a bit of a wuss and and it was really interesting what that did for my confidence and actually, actually I can't, you know, wasn't the best at it. No. But I had to go and actually.
[:It was so empowering to do that because I could have been quite easily talked out of it, so it it was another friend who'd had kind of booked before. I'd kinda said yes. And she said, well, I just thought you'd do that anyway so.
[:I was like.
[:OK, so and and and that's opened the door.
[:Other things that I've thought as you absolutely said, so just say yes.
[:Just do it. Just do it.
[:Just have a go, what's the worst thing that can.
[:Happen?
[:Exactly right. Brilliant. So let's have a little summary of our signs and that we've kind of identified today. So I think one of the really good things that you said to Denise was that people often just think that they got lucky. You know that that their success is just because they got lucky, they didn't actually do anything.
[:To to achieve that. So I think that's the first thing we can highlight.
[:Definitely. They're convinced that they're not good enough for. It's not good enough. That's another good point.
[:Something else you said, Denise? I think, which is great is it's quite hard to accept praise. So again, if we're going to flip it into a strategy, being able to say thank you when someone says sorry, nice apologising.
[:Yeah, that's another one, isn't it?
[:Yeah, just saying.
[:All the time when you don't need to unnecessarily. We know that sometimes it's the standard that you set yourself. It's so high that you you almost can't achieve it, that you are gonna almost fulfil your own doubt and fear because somebody say is way up here.
[:And I think the last one for me is is remembering that that's.
[:Fear of failure can be so paralysing it will stop you moving forward.
[:Yeah. I think for me it's know that you're.
[:Good enough, right?
[:Simply as you are, you don't have to prove anything to anyone.
[:Just know that you go.
[:Definitely. I mean that's a summary for so many challenges that we as humans have, isn't it is to just find a way, find the how for you for for being able to do that and to do that we need to do things like we said be kinder to yourself, acknowledge your successes.
[:Get that fact and feeling with with some of these thoughts, always remembering that you're not alone. There's so many people and just say yes, I love your. I love your story and hopefully somebody else. I I've recently said yes to something that's going to be pushing me out of my concern. So yeah, if you can it.
[:Your your brain might be screaming at you saying don't do it. Don't do it. You're imposter could be saying you can't, but it's just maybe jotting it down. Challenge it. Talk to somebody else about it. And then let's see if we can make it just less than ever, slightly.
[:And then, slowly but surely, we know that you then it lessens so much that it doesn't become a thing.
[:Absolutely. Build your muscle, build your resilience muscle.
[:Yeah. Well, I think it's like go to the gym, isn't it, you know? Yeah, we have to go regularly. We have to go repetitively. We've got to do all sorts of exercises to get fit. It's no different, is it?
[:No, now you're now. You're punishing me now. I'm like going. I haven't been for two weeks, so maybe I.
[:I've just started doing some some work out so you know when you kind of go in. I haven't quite got into the habit yet, so some might go tonight. Now you've shamed me into it.
[:Ohh thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with me and having this brilliant conversation. I know it's gonna help people, but before we go tell everyone where they can find you.
[:Well, you can find me on the website which is www.denisechilton.co.uk and that's probably the easy.
[:Best way? And then there's a little contact e-mail, so take a look on the site and and if not they can.
[:Contact me through you so.
[:Exactly. And we'll put some of your details in the show notes anyways. Put some of your socials and things like that. So anyone wants to check Denise out, please do.
[:Thank you very much.
[:Thank you so much.
[:For your time, Denise, today, I knew that this topic was best served with Someone Like You. Thank you. And I'm excited to say that in next week's episode, we are going to be talking about the power of the bra.
[:And how it affects your sleep, it's absolutely fascinating interview and my special guest is Joel Jensen. So I can't wait to share that with you.
[:Key for listening and sharing in this episode of Mental Health. Remember, you can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. My last question to you is what is the one small thing that you can take action on from this episode? Message me.
[:On Instagram or through our website.
[:With questions you'd like me to explore.
[:We'll find the links in the show notes.
[:I'll be back with more tools and.
[:Tips to make sense of your mind in the next step of the.
[:In the meantime.
[:Be kind to yourself. Bye for now.
