Breaking barriers w/ Phyllis Ginsberg

Episode 44 - Breaking barriers

Transcript

:: 00:04

Welcome to mental wealth, the podcast to invest in your mind. Here I will help you make sense of your mind and behaviours, giving you the tools to have your best life. There is so much to share, so let's get into this episode and explore another great topic.

:: 00:23

Welcome to Episode 44, and in this episode we're going to have a little deep dive into mental health again. It's a huge topic and it's so important that we keep talking about it and I have brought a very special guest in to this episode to help me and she is all the way over in California.

:: 00:42

I'd like to welcome Phyllis Ginsberg to the episode.

:: 00:47

Thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to talking about mental health and sharing some some valuable tips and information.

:: 00:56

I love that. I think it's so important, isn't it? Because there's so much out there and it can in itself just become overwhelming. So I love to create a kind of nice little bundle of information that people can listen to and then they can take that away. So firstly, they'll just tell everyone a little bit more about you.

:: 01:15

Well, what qualifies me to speak on this topic is having a 30 plus year career as a marriage and family therapist. And I didn't do marriage counselling my first like 10 years in this field.

:: 01:35

Was working. I first worked in a day treatment centre with some of the like most severe anxiety, depression, dual diagnosis, borderline personalities like you name it, they.

:: 01:51

Had it because they were obviously in a day treatment centre and then I worked at a family service agency that had.

:: 02:00

This is when AIDS back in the: 1990

:: 02:18

I've been in the trenches with that and then when I moved to Northern California and affiliated with the courts, I took on high conflict.

:: 02:27

Divorce, which was.

:: 02:28

Piece of cake compared to all other stuff.

:: 02:33

But yeah, even with the high.

:: 02:34

Conflict divorce. There is still so much like stress and anxiety and.

:: 02:40

People.

:: 02:40

With extreme.

:: 02:43

Views of family that were just not conducive to anything that was going to be good for their health and well-being.

:: 02:52

Yeah. So important, isn't it? But fantastic that you're here to share this space with me because I like it to be a conversation. And I have also nearly 30 years experience working in this.

:: 03:04

Build. I worked in our National Health Service for 24 years as a therapist and have been working alongside businesses and individuals in my own business for for 14 years now. So equally we we both come with a lot of wealth around how, but I think this is the thing, isn't it? It's the having that wealth, but having it be able to explained in a way that.

:: 03:26

Everybody, I'm not being patronising when I say that, but when? Just for everyone to tangibly be able to take it on.

:: 03:33

And think what?

:: 03:34

Does this actually mean for me?

:: 03:37

I think that in itself.

:: 03:39

That's when we when we get.

:: 03:41

In a place where we're.

:: 03:43

I want to call it stress because that's what most people like. That's up here. That's the generic term for. I'm not doing well. I am so stressed out, I'm overwhelmed. But under that stress are a whole array of things like fear, worry.

:: 04:04

Major concern? It could be dread. It could be hopelessness.

:: 04:12

And when we have the kind of reactions that might produce anxiety, now we've got something we can take to the doctor and say I.

:: 04:20

Need a pill?

:: 04:21

For that or depression like I can't function, I need a pill for that, but those are just Band-aids, yeah.

:: 04:29

Yep, I totally agree. Excuse me. I totally agree. And I think that's the the challenge, isn't it? That we're all looking because of the way we live. We're looking for a quick fix. We're looking to get rid of these hot these emotions, which are totally normal. They are part of who we are. They're the way the human.

:: 04:46

Brain is wired.

:: 04:47

But just looking for that.

:: 04:50

Quick fix all that.

:: 04:52

Is it? Yeah. Band-Aid, I think, is a brilliant way of of describing it. It's and it's so common to hear people who are struggling in these spaces.

:: 05:01

What I think is the.

:: 05:05

Most significant way that people can understand what they're experiencing because when you're like majorly stress and and in overwhelm you can't think straight to even remember that you have tools.

:: 05:19

Yeah, right. Yeah. If you can keep in mind that.

:: 05:24

Anxiety is.

:: 05:27

A lack of.

:: 05:29

Expression about something that you fear in the future.

:: 05:33

So you're you're feeling something. A fear of something in the future. That's anxiety.

:: 05:40

Yeah.

:: 05:41

It doesn't just happen by accident.

:: 05:43

You may or may not be aware of.

:: 05:45

What you're thinking about?

:: 05:47

The definition that I use for depression is lack of expression. So where in your life are you not able to express yourself or speak up?

:: 05:56

Or you have to.

:: 05:58

Suppress your feelings.

:: 06:00

And for most of us, we were raised with messages. Don't feel don't make a big splash. Like, don't outshine other people. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. In in your area. But certainly I grew up. Children are to be seen and not heard.

:: 06:20

Yeah. So definitely especially girls. I think you know there's definitely a fear around girls being show offs and being a bit too boisterous and you know definitely definitely.

:: 06:31

Hearing those old habits of thoughts and patterns, sorry thoughts and patterns in our thinking, which are attached to our childhoods which no longer serve us, and yet they still play.

:: 06:45

Out, don't they?

:: 06:47

Oh yes, I wrote a whole book on this and uh, the book is called empowered you for yourself from generational conditioning to unleash confidence, happiness and resilience.

:: 07:00

Because the messages we grew up with like be a good girl, be a good boy. Girls don't get angry. Boys don't cry. All of that is to suppress our feelings. Because adults didn't know how to deal with first their own emotions. And then their kids emotions. No ones taught us how to deal with all that.

:: 07:19

So let's just suppress it.

:: 07:21

Yeah, definitely. I can remember feeling quite upset a lot. A lot of the time. I think when I was younger and never feeling like I had anywhere that I could go and explore what I was feeling. So consequently it just all got squished inside.

:: 07:36

And then it wasn't till later life.

:: 07:38

But it all.

:: 07:39

Suddenly starts coming out. It's like water, isn't it? It's gonna come out somehow, somewhere.

:: 07:44

Right. And it comes out when you least expect it. And then there's like, Oh my gosh, I have to deal with.

:: 07:48

Something here like.

:: 07:50

Yeah, but.

:: 07:51

I look, I think.

:: 07:51

Your descriptions again about anxiety and depression it it.

:: 07:58

Helps us be. For me, it feels like it's a description of something that's more tangible, because it's not just a word, cause people do get very stuck with sort of words and labels and they go to the doctor and they might be told that they've got social anxiety or they've got some sort of disorder, but actually just being able to.

:: 08:18

Create that.

:: 08:19

Thought around its only if the brain hasn't got a reference, it doesn't know what is something in the future. It hasn't got a reference so it doesn't know how to attach itself, can't feel comfortable or we've got old stuff that's kicking around that's suppressed. That hasn't been expressed, that is.

:: 08:40

Maybe triggering some doubts and some self fulfilling things which is connected to the past and we spend a lot of time looking at the past, which of which we can't change and we spend a lot of time trying to project into the future and both of those create a lot of emotion, don't they?

:: 08:58

Yes. And if there's one thing that you must do if you want to improve your mental health and well-being, that would be to change something on purpose, like change the way you think on purpose, change the pattern, what we want to do is.

:: 09:16

Interrupt the pattern.

:: 09:17

And there's so many ways to do it.

:: 09:20

For example, you could choose to when you start feeling either anxious or depressed, you could choose to find something that makes you happy.

:: 09:32

It.

:: 09:33

I don't care what it is, it could be as simple as going out and feeling the sunshine on your.

:: 09:39

Face.

:: 09:40

Going and looking at.

:: 09:43

The beautiful flowers either in bloom or on on the other side of the world. We have spring right now and everything is just gorgeous.

:: 09:55

You could also remind yourself how resilient you are. You're still here. You've overcome so much stuff that you do have resources.

:: 10:06

That got you here, otherwise you wouldn't have survived.

:: 10:11

Sure. And we do forget that don't we? In that moment, we are forgetting all of the things that have got us here. And I love the simplicity. And I'm often talking about what is that thing that you can do right now, that it doesn't change the big picture. It doesn't change that big thing that you might be worrying.

:: 10:28

Well, but actually right now what is it that you could focus on? So as you say, feel the sunshine go and look at a flower, listen to some music, do something, because in that something you get.

:: 10:43

Clarity or an idea might come up, or there's something isn't there. That's quite important for us to be paying attention to in that moment. And I'm often reminding people it doesn't necessarily change the big stress that's in your life. But in the moment, it helps you make a better decision.

:: 11:01

For yourself there and then.

:: 11:03

It also allows you to tap into your resources, so once you break that pattern, you know somebody who's anxious, like ohh no, I'm I'm now anxious I'm gonna have a panic attack. Right? Like that downward spiral instead of going downward.

:: 11:24

Bring yourself up enough and it might give you the ability to now implement something new and.

:: 11:32

And I have some.

:: 11:33

Ways of thinking. Can I share those now? OK. So, so I have three ways that I want to share today that you can change your thinking. The 1st is you can use opposite thinking. So if you're thinking I ohh that's not going to go well.

:: 11:36

Please please do.

:: 11:52

And you've got a million and one reasons why, because in the past it never did, because those people are the.

:: 11:57

Way they are like.

:: 11:59

Whatever your story we tell ourselves, and we all do it. But if you on purpose, think about, OK, what's the opposite?

:: 12:08

This is gonna go well, OK. Or when you think, like, ohh, they don't really like me. I shouldn't go to that thing. And then the opposite would be. Well, they do like me and I should be there instead of staying home and feeling bad. And.

:: 12:28

No, just feeling bad for myself and.

:: 12:30

Having a pity party.

:: 12:31

Yeah.

:: 12:32

So opposite thinking is something that you can do.

:: 12:36

The other is forward thinking.

:: 12:39

Forward thinking is thinking about what you want or prefer to happen. So much of our brain.

:: 12:48

Yeah.

:: 12:49

For for.

:: 12:50

Good reason to keep.

:: 12:51

Us safe has to go back to the.

:: 12:53

Past to make sure that we don't.

:: 12:54

Repeat a past.

:: 12:55

Failure. A past mistake, something that hurt us.

:: 13:02

But that's not the direction you're going. So instead of looking in the rear view mirror, look at the windshield. Wipe it off with some window cleaner and it's full steam ahead to where you're going and what you want. And most of us were not raised to even pursue what we want. So this is.

:: 13:16

Brilliant

:: 13:22

A relatively new concept.

:: 13:25

For a lot of people who do what they think they're supposed to do, what they should do, what they're told to do.

:: 13:32

Definitely.

:: 13:34

It it's a. It's a big shift for a lot of people.

:: 13:37

No, I think.

:: 13:38

You're right and I think one of the things I'm often.

:: 13:40

Saying around that is just.

:: 13:42

Taking those little steps at a time one thing at a time, we're not trying.

:: 13:45

To change everything.

:: 13:46

Because that brain probably will go into complete.

:: 13:49

Blinding panic. But I think you know.

:: 13:52

I love.

:: 13:52

Your ideas, which is similar to what I talk about, you know, trick your brain to tell yourself it's going to be OK. Your subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between something that has or hasn't happened. So actually, you've got a piece of kit in there that you can say this is gonna be great and just project that forward and then let's see what happens.

:: 14:11

As a result.

:: 14:12

I love that.

:: 14:13

And and a lovely second one as well about just creating that kind of possibilities. What is it that could happen instead of the old wiring and it's.

:: 14:23

Yeah. And these are these are all like moment by moment. You can't predict what's going to happen and what you need for a future something.

:: 14:36

Because you don't know what frame of mind and what's being stirred up. But if you're calm enough, if you stop long enough and slow down to tune in, you can get some wisdom. You can access the ability to implement something, do something different, break that pattern.

:: 14:56

And purposely choose to think different.

:: 15:00

I think that word, I think that word choose is so, so important. Isn't it because we often feel like we haven't got a choice, you know, and you might be going into a situation quite a difficult situation you might have had a conversation with somebody in the past and you're now having to speak to them again. And it was difficult last time. So the the factor there. However, if you just decide.

:: 15:00

So you.

:: 15:00

:: 15:21

I'm going to stay calm or I'm going to stay clear and regardless of what goes on with you, the person and it might not go quite as well as as you would hope, but you have stayed true to what you set out for. And to me there is so much in that, so much power.

:: 15:37

Right. And it's all.

:: 15:39

About changing your inner world, because when your inner world changes, then your outer experience will change.

:: 15:47

Yeah, I love that.

:: 15:48

Give us your third one, Phyllis.

:: 15:50

OK. So the third one I want to.

:: 15:54

Read something from my new book empowered you.

:: 15:57

Congratulations.

:: 15:59

Thank you. And it's called positive. What if statements?

:: 16:04

So this is something that.

:: 16:06

That's meant to be playful.

:: 16:10

And I'll read this one as an example.

:: 16:13

What if it could?

:: 16:14

Be easier than I thought.

:: 16:16

What if I am so ready for something better and it happens quickly?

:: 16:22

What if I could be living my new, better life today? What if I could feel happier, healthier, and genuinely good right now?

:: 16:33

Oh, I love that. Wow. Fantastic. Yeah.

:: 16:37

Because when I tell.

:: 16:38

Clients or people I'm working with?

:: 16:43

It doesn't have to be hard, and it doesn't have to take a long time to change.

:: 16:46

And.

:: 16:47

Within an hour session with me.

:: 16:50

They're not the same person they were when.

:: 16:52

They showed up.

:: 16:54

I love that. I love that I get that as well and you can literally see there everything changes their colour and their skin changes. They just look so much different, don't they?

:: 17:04

Right, like uplifted hopeful.

:: 17:08

It's like they've.

:: 17:10

Opened up a whole new way of being that they didn't have access to before.

:: 17:16

Yeah, I think so. And I think to me just being.

:: 17:18

Able to share it whether.

:: 17:19

It's with an expert like we are or.

:: 17:22

Just a friend. Just being able to express how you're feeling without judgement.

:: 17:27

Recognising that you're not on your own and saying it every time, I think every podcast we find myself nearly saying this cause it's so important because again, the human brain is quite selfish and it will have you thinking that you're the only one, but then just by being able to say it all out loud means you've got to organise it in some way in your mind.

:: 17:47

Which means it comes out and you'll either get it all out or you say it and then.

:: 17:51

You think is.

:: 17:52

That what I'm really thinking because what you've actually said isn't right or the other person might ask you a question that makes you think ohh, that's not serving me. And I think it's that combination, isn't it? Between just expressing yourself but then hearing yourself saying your thoughts.

:: 18:08

Out loud so that somebody else can carefully catch them with you and help you unpack and look at those. And that, I believe, is one of the biggest reasons why sharing is, you know, is is powerful.

:: 18:24

Well, that's one of the reasons that I wrote empowered you is because if somebody could read.

:: 18:32

The examples that other people have been going through are going through what they've lived with or what they continue to live with, how it's affected them. That gives us information that bonds us with other people who have also had similar thoughts and feelings and experiences.

:: 18:53

And to look at how many people today are alone, feel lonely, are depressed.

:: 19:03

Have resorted to addictions to numb out it. It's staggering and it's worldwide. It's not just the US.

:: 19:11

No, it's in the UK for definite. Yeah, we've got it here.

:: 19:14

For sure. And I think then, but then people pick up and they're overwhelmed because they just don't know what to do or there's a lot of.

:: 19:21

Shame.

:: 19:22

They feel very guilty for, you know, not not feeling grateful for the things that are in their lives, because this thing that they're sort of carrying around is is almost just becomes this horrible.

:: 19:34

Monster, really within their own thinking in their lives.

:: 19:40

Yeah, definitely. It is so, so sad.

:: 19:43

That it's still.

:: 19:45

Such a big.

:: 19:45

Problem and yet you can't really say that, because I think that there's so much information out there. We people are more open and honest than they ever were. I mean, gosh, back in the day, you know, you would.

:: 19:56

Never admit.

:: 19:58

You know that you that you struggled.

:: 20:00

Like we're saying today, but we do now, but I think one of the things I'm a bit mindful of and I don't know whether you're seeing it for this in your practise, but where we needed to move, we definitely needed to move from where we were, which was nobody spoke about it. It was really taboo and you were embarrassed.

:: 20:18

We definitely need to talk about it more and and empowering people to speak about their, well, their well-being and their mental health. But I feel that sometimes it's.

:: 20:26

Sort of swung the.

:: 20:28

Other way and some people are literally now going ohh I can't do.

:: 20:33

That.

:: 20:33

Because of my anxiety or because of my and it's becoming.

:: 20:37

The real problem, and we're almost gone the other way and and I feel like we just need to come back just a little bit more central. Like are you saying similar?

:: 20:47

I think the reason for that is that.

:: 20:51

The mental health system and using a diagnostic manual and.

:: 20:59

And the labelling of people and then having a treatment plan that's supposed to work for everybody has failed us.

:: 21:08

Yeah. No, I think that you're absolutely right. I mean, I'm not a fan of labelling, you know, when someone comes to me and says they've been diagnosed with something, I often will say, well, let's let's all about that. That's just that's a label. Let's think about you and what's going on to you, because otherwise the label can.

:: 21:24

Gives them a barrier. I mean, don't you know? Don't know. Wrong. It often opens doors for treatment and and support. So I I get it. But I think we need to be careful that we don't then literally label ourselves as broken or you know Uncle.

:: 21:31

Right.

:: 21:43

Unrepairable, terrible language level.

:: 21:45

That's so, so many of the people I work with have gone to the doctor and felt like they.

:: 21:51

Weren't taken seriously.

:: 21:53

And that's tragic. Like there's no reason for that. And when you simplify the at the root cause.

:: 22:04

I don't claim to be a genius, but it just seems common sense that if we were raised, suppressed and to be limited.

:: 22:16

That as we become adults at 18, that doesn't magically go away, and we're now like free to change all the rules that we didn't.

:: 22:24

Like as kids.

:: 22:26

No, we still have all that programming and are subconscious. We live almost like we're. I don't know, let's say six or seven-year olds.

:: 22:38

In adult bodies, emotionally, most of us didn't get what we needed.

:: 22:43

Yeah, I agree. And then?

:: 22:44

We then we try and sign.

:: 22:47

Solutions in our adult life, which sometimes work, but sometimes they're in the wrong direction. As you say, it could be something like a an addiction, but equally people are looking for relationships to to fix things and looking out for other people to help fix them. And that while other people can assist.

:: 23:07

It still comes down to you being OK with yourself and being true to yourself.

:: 23:12

Well, I think it's just difficult.

:: 23:13

Right. And that's probably the biggest piece of all of this is that we were taught to be outer focused to get our needs met from the outside, which is how we came into this world, right? We didn't have any internal way of taking care of ourselves. At some point, we have to make that shift.

:: 23:32

And if you were told, don't be selfish. Don't focus on yourself. Stop thinking about yourself. You're so full of yourself. Well, those aren't gonna be helpful.

:: 23:45

For us to tune in to what we need, what we like.

:: 23:49

What we prefer.

:: 23:51

So we already have this inner struggle of how can I be me, which probably isn't on most people's radar? Who who are stressed, anxious, depressed, or addicted to something?

:: 24:06

Maybe they want that on some level, but don't have any clue how to do that and so if if we don't give ourselves permission to have a sense of self.

:: 24:22

Then we don't have a foundation.

:: 24:25

At all.

:: 24:26

Hmm, I think that's so powerful and I think what you said there, I want to come back to is that permission just permission giving yourself permission to be you.

:: 24:38

Is the only thing that you can do, but actually just to genuinely do that, so that might be that you're a bit different to somebody else, so you might not fit in with that group over there or you might lose that friendship because you're in a different space. But having the courage to do all that.

:: 24:55

Helps with that. As you say, anxiety is things that you're trying to put your attention on that you don't know what they look like. So if you're trying to imagine yourself being in the wrong space, then you're gonna feel anxious. Or are you gonna be dragging up all the old stuff and all the old stories that did or didn't work out and they all worked out beautifully? Really. But.

:: 25:14

You're not seeing it like that.

:: 25:17

Yeah, it it is interesting to look at the progression of somebody who does the work of growing right personal growth and development. And although we might have the same situations continuously show up where we think we've dealt with that and it shows up again.

:: 25:37

We're actually at A at a different I want to say maturity level growth level. So it's kind of like a spiral and.

:: 25:46

And you're never gonna go back once you get a taste and put some tools into practise and you actually.

:: 25:57

Make progress. You can never go back in the box.

:: 26:01

No, I agree.

:: 26:02

It won't fit in there anymore. So when when that same pattern shows up in the future, you're just ready for the next.

:: 26:10

Opening.

:: 26:11

Yeah, or even your awareness, I mean, I know. For me, I I'm living proof of of a if people who knew me from years ago to what I am now, I'm a different person. But each time, even though you feel like, why does this keep happening to me? And if you do hear yourself saying that, then you know there's something going on. But each time there's a little bit more awareness.

:: 26:31

Or a little. You're getting closer all the time to just making that decision. That's right for you, which might be saying no, it might be going for something. Whichever sort of scenario.

:: 26:42

But each time you.

:: 26:43

Are hopefully just shifting your awareness at least to thinking no, this is not right for me. The reason why I'm miserable is because I'm doing something that's wrong for me and not being focused on the other person.

:: 26:58

Right. We we often give our lives to others expectations of us.

:: 27:05

And if we?

:: 27:07

Do that as an adult, guaranteed that we were programmed with some specific ways of being like ohh, you're not good at that. And so you never pursue whatever that is or you know you're the one. You're the pretty one and and your sister's the smart.

:: 27:27

Well.

:: 27:29

That has a whole other set of ramifications when you're.

:: 27:34

Labelled as something we often live up to, the labels that we were given as children, and that can really interfere with our adult lives.

:: 27:44

It really does. It really does. And I think for me, I'm often reminding people that 80%, I believe and it's not a scientific figure this, but 80% of making any change comes from being aware of what is going on. So even if you just become aware.

:: 27:59

That. Ohh, there's that.

:: 28:00

Oh yeah, that feels like.

:: 28:03

I'm about 6 again, or oh there I'm. I'm saying to myself the same thing that I was told when I was younger. And you know, again without judgement it's that's what we said. That's what happened. But changing that I believe 80% of changing it is being aware of of actually those thoughts and and catching yourself out and then.

:: 28:23

The rest is almost the the and I know it's not. That's obviously there's a lot of work to go in in the 20%, but I think just helping people see it like that. Think only catching, just being.

:: 28:34

Like, there's that thought.

:: 28:35

Again, there's that belief. Again. It starts to change, doesn't.

:: 28:39

It how you move forward?

:: 28:41

And even if you catch yourself after the fact, consider that a win.

:: 28:48

I love that. Yeah, 100%. You're right. It's just like, OK, that yesterday was a bad day because all day I was thinking this, this and this. Today there is a new day and you've got an awareness of it. So. Absolutely. Yeah. Because there's no point in thinking like that, not catching it and then being annoyed with yourself because you're still thinking like that because it just becomes then.

:: 29:08

Cyclical, doesn't it?

:: 29:10

MHM.

:: 29:11

Brilliant.

:: 29:12

OK. Have you got anything else?

:: 29:14

To share a little last last little nugget or anything Phyllis and you got so much and all your books.

:: 29:21

Will put those in.

:: 29:22

The show notes so people can check you out.

:: 29:26

Yes, the there are 4 characteristics of someone who is resilient and so the first one that I like to start with is happiness.

:: 29:39

Anytime that you can find what makes you happy and in my book brain makeover, the first weekly reading is keeping the happiest moment of the day journal because that's personal to you. And so when you're happy, when you're looking for things.

:: 29:58

To write in your journal, you're going to go about your day wondering, huh? What am I gonna write? What makes me happy? Ohh, that first sip of coffee or tea in the morning. But it doesn't have to be anything big. But focusing on happiness is a factor of resiliency. Having patience.

:: 30:16

Patients to tolerate things when they aren't going well. When you have to wait for something. So patience is 1.

:: 30:25

Of the characteristics.

:: 30:27

Being optimistic, seeing the bright side, looking for something good in it has to do with that.

:: 30:33

Yeah.

:: 30:36

And the 4th one is being flexible, so being flexible could mean having a new perspective on something.

:: 30:46

It might mean that instead of thinking in a rigid way, it has to be this way. This is the way we've always done it. This is the way it's supposed to be done, that there's some flexibility for other ways of doing something brilliant. Wow.

:: 31:04

Jam packed episode.

:: 31:06

Code so we've even explored some of that mental health, some of that maybe just breaking away from some of that traditional way of seeing it and just looking at it through.

:: 31:14

Your lens for.

:: 31:15

This which was brilliant.

:: 31:16

And then lots of ideas about how.

:: 31:19

And then some.

:: 31:20

To top it all, for ways of being more resilient and I love that starting with happiness.

:: 31:26

Just that one small thing that just gives you joy in that moment can is building resilience. And I think for me again that being able to not take yourself seriously, not be so help.

:: 31:38

Sure, that expectations, you know people will let us down. People will do things differently and just be more flexible and being able to kind of go with it a bit more. It just gives you.

:: 31:48

Freedom, doesn't it in that space?

:: 31:50

Right. Because if you allow that for.

:: 31:52

Them.

:: 31:53

You want that for you to. You would want them to allow you to be you, and that's what this I think that's what this is all about, where we're going as a community.

:: 32:01

Yes, I I agree. And I think again, I, I love these conversations.

:: 32:06

Because we we don't want to be stuck in.

:: 32:09

That place where?

:: 32:10

I I even wanna say you almost been lied to. But there's this perception of how it's all meant to be. And you know, I like to have real conversations like we have in today to help people be able to just make whatever it is that's not working or whatever it is. It doesn't.

:: 32:27

Feel quite right.

:: 32:28

Start to make those changes cause otherwise it just feels.

:: 32:30

Like it's one big.

:: 32:33

Challenge and it doesn't need to be in the same way as it's often painted.

:: 32:37

Right, everyone deserves to live a life that they enjoy.

:: 32:41

I agree. What a brilliant way to finish. Thank you so much for your time and for you. It's this morning. And for me it's.

:: 32:47

This afternoon, but I really.

:: 32:48

Appreciate you coming on the show.

:: 32:51

Ohh thank you so much for having me.

:: 32:57

Thank you for listening and sharing in this episode of Mental Wealth. Remember, you can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. My last question to you is what is the one small thing that you can take action on from this episode? Message me.

:: 33:14

On Instagram or through our website with questions you'd like me to Expo?

:: 33:19

We'll.

:: 33:19

The links in the show notes I'll be back with more tools and tips to make sense of your mind in the next.

:: 33:25

Step of the.

:: 33:26

In the meantime, be kind to yourself. Bye for now.